Legislature(1995 - 1996)

04/19/1995 03:38 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
          HB 197 MINERAL EXPLORATION INCENTIVE CREDITS                        
                                                                              
 NEAL MACKINNON, Minerals Commissioner, said he supported HB 197.              
 He said his company makes its living by exploring for properties              
 and then finding another company to come in with the big money it             
 takes to drill and carry it beyond the basic exploration part.  Not           
 only do they deal with properties in Alaska, they compete in a                
 world market.  They are finding that big companies who have a lot             
 of capital to expend in exploration are going to see more fertile             
 fields in South America.  There is some perception that Alaska is             
 not "open for business" and not friendly to mining.  HB 197 would             
 have a good psychological affect.  This is the critical money,                
 because it is high risk.  Another advantage the state would get in            
 return for the credit is data that is developed from the                      
 exploration projects, MR. MACKINNON said.                                     
                                                                               
 KARL HANNEMAN testified on geophysical, geological, aerial mapping            
 recommendations.  He said the 1991 Alaska Minerals Commission                 
 Report recommended for the first time that the state undertake this           
 geological and geophysical mapping program, because Alaska was                
 recognized as being the least geologically mapped of the 50 states.           
 To market Alaska as an exciting frontier for mineral exploration,             
 a complete and accurate geologic and geophysical data base would              
 send a positive signal to the mining industry that Alaska favors              
 mineral development.  Two objectives were outlined, then, he said.            
 The first short-term objective was to attract exploration dollars             
 that would result in private sector economic activity in Alaska -             
 often in rural Alaska.  The second objective was to find mines.               
                                                                               
 He said the state has developed a competent staff and a critical              
 amount of work needs to be done each year in order to make an                 
 efficient program.                                                            
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR said he thought if we could increase funding to                
 attract tourists to Alaska by $1 million this year, we should be              
 able to increase the funding by which we determine what                       
 mineralization we have here to attract anyone to look at.                     
          HB 197 MINERAL EXPLORATION INCENTIVE CREDITS                        
                                                                               
  SENATOR LEMAN announced HB 197 to be up for consideration.                  
                                                                               
 JOHN WALSH, Legislative Aide to Representative Richard Foster, said           
 HB 197 helps make Alaska as attractive as possible for investment             
 dollars to come in and help us develop our resource potential.                
 Native corporations are going to need to partner-in with                      
 professional mining companies and this is a positive way to keep              
 them going.                                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asked if HB 197 was fairly consistent with the                  
 credits.  MR. WALSH said that was correct and added that these are            
 the same credits that were in the bill last year, although there is           
 another provision for corporate income tax in the current bill.               
                                                                               
 DEBRA VOGT, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Revenue, said they             
 do have some concerns with HB 197, primarily in the income tax                
 area.  She explained that regarding mining, there are two taxes -             
 corporate income tax and the mining license tax.  Both taxes are              
 net income taxes, neither tax will tax an activity until it shows             
 a profit.  Additionally, the natural resource extraction                      
 calculation accounts for exploration costs by bringing those costs            
 forward until the beginning of production and allowing them to be             
 amortized and depleted against income.  So every expense that is              
 addressed by this legislation is already deductible under both the            
 mining license tax and the corporate income tax.  She agreed with             
 Mr. Walsh that the mining license tax has a three and one-half year           
 tax exemption.  The Department of Revenue believes the tax                    
 structure for the mining industry in Alaska is pretty fair.                   
                                                                               
 Number 260                                                                    
                                                                               
 Any perception that Alaska is not welcoming to the mining industry            
 is just that - a perception.  Mining taxes and corporate income tax           
 paid by mining companies in this past year totaled about $300,000.            
 The state is not collecting a lot of money from the mining                    
 industry, she said.                                                           
                                                                               
 One of the largest problems the department has with the legislation           
 is with the way it works vis-a-vis the income tax.  We have an                
 income tax system that a lot of states use that does not tax based            
 on what you might consider to be your own business sense of profit            
 and loss in this state.  When a corporation does business in more             
 than one state, a method has to be found for determining how much             
 of that income was earned in Alaska and how much was earned                   
 someplace else.  The mining license tax does look only at Alaska              
 activities.  The corporate income tax taxes a part of income based            
 on a formula looking at your nationwide activities.  It's called              
 the water's edge reporting method which looks at the percentage of            
 sales in Alaska and compares it to the sales everywhere else in the           
 states that you do business.  That fraction is then added to the              
 percentage of your property that's in Alaska vs. the property in              
 other states and your payroll in Alaska vs. your payroll                      
 everywhere.  Those three fractions are added and divided by three;            
 that answer is averaged to come up with one fraction that is                  
 applied against your overall United States income to determine the            
 amount of income  we  say you earned in Alaska for tax purposes.            
 This is not a method used by taxpayers to look at themselves; it is           
 used by taxing authorities and almost every state uses it, because            
 it's a lot simpler than trying to untangle intercorporate affairs             
 of multi-state taxpayers and using separate accounting (which is              
 used with only oil companies).  This technique bears no                       
 relationship to the concepts presented in HB 197.                             
                                                                               
 The bill twice asks the department to relate the income generated             
 by the mining activity to the site of the mine and the idea is that           
 incentives are accumulated for a particular site.  Formula                    
 apportionment isn't going to tell you how much money the site made.           
 The Knowles Administration is opposed to the legislation, primarily           
 because of the inclusion of AS 43.20 at all and basically the                 
 double deduction of being able to deduct the exploration expenses             
 and then later getting a credit for the same expense.  The taxpayer           
 will make money from the state for each dollar.                               
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asked her if she had any suggestions that might help            
 accomplish what the prime sponsor wants accomplished.  MS. VOGT               
 said she hadn't discussed specific amendments, but certainly taking           
 AS 43.20 out of the legislation would be a great improvement.  She            
 said it would also be simple to draft an amendment that would not             
 permit a deduction for the same expenses that were used for a                 
 credit.  The difficulty is that the deduction part applies to the             
 taxes, not to the royalty and rent parts.  The legislation lumps              
 together all the taxes and allows you to take half of the amount              
 against any of liabilities.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 160                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asked if any mining companies in Alaska were paying             
 corporate income taxes.  MS. VOGT said she thought so.  She added             
 that the mining definition includes sand and gravel.                          
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asked how Alaska compared with other states for the             
 mining business.  MS. VOGT said she didn't know that and offered to           
 bring that information back to him.                                           
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR said there are other factors at play, not just tax             
 issues, to make a reputation.  He said incentives were given years            
 and years ago.                                                                
                                                                               
 MR. BORREL strongly supported HB 197 as it reads.  He thought it              
 would encourage international mining companies.  He said they have            
 been working hard to change the perception that Alaska is a                   
 difficult place to do business and he thought this would go a long            
 way toward that.  He noted that only exploration expenses were                
 addressed in this bill and that there are many other costs                    
 involved.  Also, he noted that these credits could not be used                
 unless the project goes into production.  Part of the reason the              
 State of Alaska has such little income from the mining industry is            
 because there's effectively no mining in the state.  The credits              
 are applied against new revenue streams and don't touch existing              
 production.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Another aspect is that by far most projects will never become an              
 operating mine, and therefore, most of those expenditures that have           
 been certified will never actually appear as a credit against a               
 project.  Another measure of how few projects would have already              
 benefited from this is that there are only three mines in the state           
 that are year-round operating mines that could have qualified for             
 this had it been in place at the time of exploration.                         
                                                                               
 MR. BORREL said he thought it was correct that the oil exploration            
 incentives bill that was passed last year has exactly the same                
 language regarding state income tax as this bill has.                         
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-46, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. VOGT responded that the tax in Title 41 is a tax credit for oil           
 exploration activities and is applicable against AS 43.20, the                
 income tax, but it is not related to the site.  It is simply a tax            
 credit up to a cap which is a very specific dollar amount - a total           
 of $5 million per project and a total of $30 million per company              
 taken anywhere.                                                               
                                                                               
 Jules Tileston, Director, Mining and Water Management, said there             
 are two distinct elements of the bill, one dealing with the income            
 tax and the other dealing with rents and royalties.  His comments             
 deal only with the rents and royalties.  He said the bill has                 
 addressed most of his areas of concern on its way through the                 
 legislature.  The coal industry now pays a 5% adjusted gross value            
 royalty and a $3 per acre rental.  Cost for transportation from the           
 mine mouth to the point of sale and for benefication costs are                
 already deductible from the contract sales prices.  A mechanism for           
 royalty reduction is available if the coal operation is                       
 unprofitable.  For that reason, they believe coal should not be               
 included.                                                                     
                                                                               
 MR. TILESTON said clarification was needed on page 3, line 9 which            
 addresses a series of things you must do.  One of the items is a              
 definite advantage to industry and the public when the credit is              
 actually applied for and implemented that the data used for credit            
 be made available.  He recommended after the word, "consultant" on            
 line 9 add "and exploration activity data that will in the future             
 be made available under Section 2(a)" so there is a clear linkage             
 between the provision of the data and the application of the                  
 credit.  There were additions in the bill that have already been              
 made that provide for identifying the data on an annual basis so              
 there is no confusion of what is available.                                   
                                                                               
 Their second concern is that the Division operates largely on                 
 program receipts from rentals.  They are concerned that as the                
 present levels of funding go down, particularly from oil and gas,             
 that deductions may affect their ability to provide continued                 
 service at the level they are providing now to the industry.                  
 Therefore, they propose that the rental offset not apply for those            
 elements only.                                                                
                                                                               
 Their last concern was with the definition of a site.  Most mining            
 companies hold numerous 40-acre mining claims.  Some mining leases            
 are also 40-acres in size, but may range up to several thousand               
 acres in size.  The rentals change according to whether the claim             
 has been located for five or ten years.  The bill should make it              
 clear that it's the area of operation which is only defined at the            
 permit time and that only those exploration credits which have                
 previously been approved that go to that site are the ones that can           
 be used.                                                                      
                                                                               
 MR. TILESTON said there was definitely a glimmer of hope from DNR's           
 perspective on this legislation.  SENATOR LEMAN asked MS. VOGT if             
 there might be some hope from the Department of Revenue if they put           
 in a cap and deal with the income taxes.  MS. VOGT answered there             
 would be from DOR, but she couldn't say about Governor Knowles.               
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN said they would set HB 197 aside for now.                       

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